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Agility Changes on Singularity

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.04.07 22:39:00 - [1] Originally by: Ephemeron mwd cloak warp 0.0 bubbles are pretty good at neutralizing this tactic. Only low sec empire suffers more, but even there, I have lost a few battleships. So, it is by no means an invulnerability granting trick, just another tactical tool Yes... yes it is. Its an uninentional invulnerabilty trick which only fails due to extreme bad luck (a random bit of space junk sat on your jump in point) or bad lag. Ive personally seen you fly past the quickest low sec tacklers in the game repeatedly in 5 bill isk + ships without a care in the world. I also have flown my low skilled alt through all the major pirate camp spots in a t1 fit raven to prove the point. To test this "non exploit" ive had interceptors remote sensor boosted and tasked soley with getting a lock on my ship. If done correctly it is impossible to do. Any arguments you may make towards consensual pvp are totally hypocritical whilst you continue to defend this. You can fly one of the slowest ships in the game, combat fit though any camp, with any tackler setup, in low sec simply by fitting a cloak and an mwd. This is self evidently not balanced - and it flabbergasts me that you continue to suggest it is. Also flabbergasting is no reference to this non exploit ever by any ccp employee when they seem so concerned with balance.
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.04.08 10:53:00 - [2] Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 08/04/2009 10:55:52 Originally by: Ephemeron The MWD+cloak trick gives people 10 seconds to decloak and scramble the target. Which is a pretty good amount of time if you have those fast ships and inties. A battleship with MWD on has huge sig radius, so once you decloak it, even your regular cruiser can lock it in a couple seconds. If you know that you are going to be facing a lot of battleships in low sec that use this trick, you can put a few gang members in frigs and use them to decloak people - without aggro to sentries. Then, we should also remember that there's a reason low sec has sentries in the first place - they are there to discourage pirate tackle, by keeping the fast small ships away. It seems the CCP intentially made it harder to catch people in low sec gates than 0.0 gates, so is it really proper to compare those 2 and demand they should be equally easy? Regarding the MWD+cloak trick itself: people have discussed it since the introduction of cloaking devices - years ago. I personally started at least 1 thread specifically addressing this issue and it was specifically told to me that this a valid tactic. I find it funny to see people being surprised by it even tho it has been around for more than 2 years now. This is a valid tactic without a shadow of a doubt, whether you think it's bad influence of game play is another matter, but don't bother treating it as an exploit, as that just makes your post less likely to be taken seriously I clearly state the issue is regarded as a "non Exploit". So dont try that evasion malarky - it wont work. My complaint that was you seem so concerned with tweaking speed/agailty by 0.05% in the quest for balance - yet as a matter of course use, and indeed now defend the most unbalanced "feature" in the game - a feature that allows (combat fitted) the slowest ships in the game to be uncatchable in low sec. As such (and whilst this continues) - anything you say in this thread is reduced to a farce. Your point about "i posted in a thread three years ago" is so utterly irrelevant as its not funny. You act as if this absolves you of guilt over the unbalance. Your "inty uncloaker" trick is fine in theory - but in practice rarely works. Again - to prove this - I have used the fastest ship in the game with drones assigned from gang and a HG snake set. (nb this was pre speed nerf) I also tried it with a macherial and a cynabal in case the wider ship models/less speed worked better at the uncloak. The problem lies in double clicking on the enemy when the uncloaks leads to your ship stopping dead in the water as soon as he hits cloak (ie straight away). The ships "nose dips" as well - meaning your alignment is altered and cannot simply whack top speed again - as you head in a different direction. So your only alternative is to manualy rotate your camera to whatever random position the target ends up in , and spam double click roughly in the right area and pray. A combination of double click and then manual spam worked best - but delivered rarely. If the target IS by chance uncloaked, you have a considerable delay before your remotly boosted lachesis can even attempt to lock "target is invulnerable, target is invulnerable, target is invulnerable..." Then you have a second or so befor he is locked. Then you have a second before the modules decide to swtich on. In practice - the target is long gone by this point. These are COMBAT FIT SHIPS. No skills needed, no special crazy module set ups. With the addition of the little green timer ring around the mwd module - it dosent even need the ability to count to 10. As such - I again say that whilst you continue to defend this obviously unbalanced issue - any and all of your comments on "balance" (be it speed, agility or whatever) should be considered hypocritical and irrelevant.
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.04.08 18:39:00 - [3] Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 08/04/2009 18:47:44 Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 08/04/2009 18:40:23 Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: ..You want CCP to rebalance agility to allow ships to be caught, but to not change another mechanic which makes it impossible to be caught.. As long as you keep using words like "impossible" and "invulnerability", I just can't take you seriously, I'm sorry Cop Out Massive and shocking avoidance of all the posters points. As has been pointed out - the trick will fail if 1) Lag - lag causing module delay 2) Bad Luck - A chance jump in position next to a wreck (remember it is an exploit to deliberatly spam items to counter this trick so people cannot engineer this 3) 562 (if my maths are correct) pilots placed in exact postions around the uncloak sphere. Or for the sake of argume maybe 90 interceptor pilots orbiting at 15km. (balanced?) If you had ANY defence against the arguments levveled agsint you - you would have brought them out. Not picked on the word "impossible" and clammed up. Hell Ive seen you personally do that trick maybe 30 times. In one system over a period of a year. You must have done it hundereds and hundereds of times. Myself Ive done it around 200 times. Ive been to all the choke points in low sec in the game, and even went to the caldari militi zone to test in on their fleets of frigates. Never been tackled. For the sake of argument substitute the word impossible (which you objected to)for: "The cloak mwd trick allows the slowest ships in the game to be 98.5% impossible to tackle in low sec. Tackling ships have been tested as HG Snake interceptors, remotely sensor boosted. The trick is not difficult - can be done with a 1mill skill point alt - it requires the ability to push three buttons in a row." Ive seen it done all the time. Ive done it myself and ran my low skilled all past all the best low sec camps in the game. Ive never been tackled. Skill-less alt T1 Fits Slow Ass Combat Fit Raven 30 Frigates Trying to tackle me and failing No Ones been able to tackle me in low sec Balance? Ive seen you do it in 5 billion isk ships (both yourself and your alt) and you breeze thorugh low sec, against the best tacklers in the game without a care in the world. This is inherently NOT balanced. Yet you continue to argue about 0.1% agility changes and how this will affect pvp.
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.04.11 04:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 11/04/2009 04:20:59 New Module: GODS ZIMMCLOAKWARPMWDER! FITTING: SLOTS: 1 Top And 1 Mid CPU: 135 tf PowerGrid: 1251 MW DESCRIPTION: The first module to emerged from jovian space in 6 years, this device is unique in taking both a top and middle slot on battleship sized craft. This, drawback though, pales into insignificance when compared to the rewards this item offers the pilot. EFFECTS: 1) Activating this module deflects 99.5% of all attempts to tackle it in low sec by any ship - leaving the pilot free to warp around at will 2)This device allows the pilot to cloak with the same efficiency as an improved cloaking device II 3)This device provides the same speed boost etc as a top of the range MWD This device can be used on any battleship, and instantly turns the slowest ship in the game - fully combat ship fits into an untackalable wraith. SKILL PREQS Some lv3 navigation skills Electronics V COST 2 million isk ________________________ Now the above module would NEVER have got past balancing. Indeed it wouldnt even have been brought up by any Dev - even as a joke. Any attempts to introduce it would have been met with massive outcry Yet because the cloak mwd trick came about as an unintentional side effect of two modules, its all ok???? Of course not - So why are people attempting to defend it - And why is it still in the game?
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.04.11 18:03:00 - [5] Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 11/04/2009 18:06:37 Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 11/04/2009 18:06:17 Originally by: Raimo Actually, it's you and your brothers in cloak-whine who should be quiet in this thread, titled "agility changes on singularity", not "cloaking is broken" or anything like that... Make your own thread ffs. (No, I have no opinion on the cloaking **** tho I like my recons and transports...) 1 ) Fair point - but this is a CCP thread seeming to indicate they wish to change agility to make tackle easier (after years of making it harder and harder) in order to promote non consensual PVP (due to the present situation where it is very difficult to tackle a ship of the same class as yourself before it warps off) This has naturally lead to the point that using the cloak mwd trick makes all ships (baring those few that can not fit an mwd... t1 industrials) untacklable. You can change the agility all you like - they simply have to hit 5 buttons in a row (now with a handy green timer around the modules so you don't even have to count to 10) and they warp without any chance (baring collision with a space pea) to tackle them. As such - all cloak mwd posts are absolutely on topic and you can forgive people whom for many years have almost given up hope of this issue being addressed seeing a glimmer of light in the OPs ideas. Here we have a DEV who may just address the issue. Even if its to say "I wasnt aware of this issue and now I am - It will be looked into.". 2) And your point about "I dont care about cloak ** - but i do like my recons" shows you DONT UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE** Nobody is complaining about ships who can fit a cov ops cloak being nigh untackleable in low sec. These ships have built in disadvantages to compensate for that massively powerful advantages. The complaint is ANY SHIP can do the cloak mwd trick. ANY SHIP. To prove this I ran my alts low skilled Raven though all the choke points in the game. I also ran a Hyperion through the caldari militia area (seeking out fleets of frigates to try and tackle me) AND THEY COULDN'T. This was fully combat fit ships. In a thread where the complaint is that Ships of the same class have difficult tackling each other before they warp - Here we have a situation where a FRIGATE cannot tackle a BATTLESHIP before it warps. This is self evidentaly not balanced.
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.04.11 19:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 11/04/2009 19:24:54 Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 11/04/2009 19:20:52 Originally by: Raimo You cloakwhiners downgrade this thread and bury all the legitimate ON TOPIC discussion in to this singleminded drivel... Personally, I've stated my views but to repeat them to try and be heard above the noise, I'd love for ceptors to retain their current TQ agilities, and I would love for blasters boats to get some loving they sorely need. (Maybe matari too, I dunno) Thanks for your well thought out opinions "MAYBE MATARII NEED SOMETHING DONE I DUNNOS!" Which bring a lot of content to this thread. However your point about "noise" and "off topic" are totally and demonstratively wrong. Read the OP again: Originally by: CCP Nozh In our recent changes to speed we made some agility changes, the changes that were meant to make acceleration and maneuverability feel better had an unwanted side effect. It became too hard to target lock ships before they aligned and warped off. In a thread which is 100% about not being able for ships to lock a target before it aligns and warps off - the Cloak MWD trick (which, to reiterate, is 100% designed to allow your ship to align and warp off before the best tacklers in the game can tackle you) is very much on topic. Its not just about agility.. its about agilty - scan res - and overall the non ability to tackle ships which should be tackleable. Am i wrong?
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.04.14 05:00:00 - [7] Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 14/04/2009 05:02:40 Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 14/04/2009 05:01:14 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha MWD "trick" requires you to use 1 high slot, plus if the gang use smart bombs, corpses or containers (or drones) they'll reveal you. There's multiple counters, like in everything in EvE. Ok - this is the problem with EVE. A lot of people commenting on stuff they dont know about. 1) SmartBombs do not uncloak ships 2) Corpse spamming is an exploit 3) Can spamming is an exploit 4) The number of ships with drones out needed at the 15+KM jump in (im using only the small gates) is approximately 225. The larger gates exponentialy more. So no - there isnt multiple counters. There IS NOT a counter - short of positioning 225 ships around the gate in exact positions. (this covers all the possible uncloaking positions) This is the problem - All we want is a way to counter it. PLEASE PLEASE could all the people who dont understand Cloak-Mwd please pipe down. Thanks
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.04.14 13:20:00 - [8] Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 14/04/2009 13:23:18 Originally by: maralt 1)It can also only be produced in a setting that does not have disruption bubbles of some description up. 2)The ALIGN/MWD/CLOAK/UNCLOAK/WARP manouver is a effect that can only be produced through the application of 2 modules, perfect timing and piloting skill and as such is not subject to the definition of a "exploit". 1) Please Read the OP again. He/She (i think its a he) clearly states Quote: In our recent changes to speed we made some agility changes, the changes that were meant to make acceleration and maneuverability feel better had an unwanted side effect. It became too hard to target lock ships before they aligned and warped off As you can see - we are not talking about "bubbled environments" - else the target ship wouldn't be warping off before lock was attained. So your first point is irrelevant to the topic at hand. 2) The POS BOWLING maneuver is a effect that can only be produced through the application of 2 modules, perfect timing and piloting skill and as such is not subject to the definition of a "exploit"..... OH WAIT - YES IT IS! YOU GET BANNED FOR IT. So your second point is irrelevant to the topic at hand The point? The amount of modules, the timing needed (Which as an aside you dont need to be perfect - there's a nice little green bar that grows around the module to tell you exactly when to push what) or piloting skills (next to none needed) do not effect what is classed as an exploit - or we would still hav POS bowling in the game. Im glad to see people have stopped trying to suggest their is a counter to this "trick" (there is not) though and are moving to other (just as easily counter able) points to try to defend this method)
Susan Kennedy Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups	Posted - 2009.05.08 22:28:00 - [9] Excellant work CCP - If this goes through you will silence the doubters. cloak-mwd-warp was a travesty - and people who used it a stain on the game Nice to see you are listening.

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